What the NYC Startup World Needs (and Doesn’t Need)

Chris Dixon wrote a post a few days with the same title as this one. Fred Wilson has chimed in and there’s a larger debate on the NY Times.

Chris is a well respected guy who obviously thinks about this stuff a lot, but I think he got one or two things wrong in his assessment. Anyway, I wanted to respectfully counter a few of his points and add a few points to the conversation.

The first thing I want to counter is his notion that spending $100M on “Expensive projects like big engineering universities” is a bad idea. As I said Tuesday night at the NY Tech Meetup, I think this project is the first large, truly disruptive, outside the box plan I’ve seen from the NYC government. I’ve always advised the City to do things that truly leverage its unique abilities (i.e. stay away from incubators and incremental investment funds, which the market can and is taking care of just fine). Getting a major engineering school to move itself to NYC would return over $100M in value to the greater City in very short order — we’re talking only one big startup coming out of this — and would change the face of the City in a big way.

Chris also mentioned he thought of other ways to spend $100M. I think he and I would agree that the City should only spend resources on what they can do uniquely and that provides leverage in the market. This plan fits that squarely. I would love to know what suggestions Chris has that also fit that mold.

Lastly, I think Chris may be underestimating the impact the students of a major engineering school will have here. In other places (hi Boston/Stanford culture!) innovation seems to come from the researchers and professors. Two years ago I was also on the record saying how much I hoped innovation would come from our researchers and public/private relationships between startups and universities.

But today it’s clear: HackNY has been the single most important thing that’s happened in NYC over the past two years. Single most important thing. University-based innovation in NYC will be lead by its students. Hell, startup innovation will be lead by its student interns! And a school the brings in hundreds of new engineers a year to NYC will make a big big difference. I think it’s a great investment.

Past the university issue, I totally agree with Chris on what we don’t need. On the front of “what we need” I think he left out one huge, huge issue: we need a plug for NYC’s leaky M&A bucket.

Much more than “More marquee tech companies opening large tech offices here,” we need A marquee tech company to actually be headquartered here — to be a real NYC company. I wrote about it last year and I still think it’s the single biggest vulnerability for our tech ecosystem: when a company gets bought — and despite this IPO market, that’s still what happens for 95% of startup “successes” — there is not a single TECH company that could buy them in NYC. This is a huge problem.

How huge? I think losing Justin Schafer and Sam Lessin to Facebook was damaging to the NYC startup ecosystem. Sam was making super smart seed investments, driving its culture with Y+30, hiring amazing developers; Justin too was building a world-class team (some of whom are already back out in the market building great companies).

Now Sam and Justin are gone and while we’re a vibrant and diverse community here, I feel there was a real hole left behind. And they’re just two examples. I’m still worried about what happens when/if Foursquare sells. In 2011 NYC tech is bigger than any one person or company, but these are all damaging, and in the long-run its a problem.

So what to do about it? Our media companies — for their own sake, not ours — need to become tech companies. Real exit opportunities for NYC’s startups are those that allow them to stay in NYC doing interesting technical things. Last year I wrongly suggested that IAC could be the most-likely-yet-still-unlikely saving grace here. Sadly, and with almost no more faith that I had in IAC, I think AOL is the more likely hero. They say they want to be a media company and so, again, I have very little faith here, but if they would somehow pivot and embrace their technology roots and choose to be a world-class technology company then I think NYC would finally start plugging its M&A hole.

Lastly I should point out that while I have little faith that AOL or IAC will make this shift, despite being the closest of the media companies to being that big tech player, I actually have a lot of faith in the market that SOMEONE will emerge.

Soon enough? We’ll see.

But, if you’ve been at the last few NY Tech Meetups you will notice that Conde-Nast, Hearst, and yes, AOL, have all demoed great skunkworks projects. As Marc Cenedella pointed out at Tuesday’s NYTM, Idea Flight isn’t your father or mother’s big company skunkworks project — it’s elegant, simple, not over-thought. I’m officially on the record with Marc (and smart folks like Anil Dash are too) that this is a very good thing for NY tech (and I think the wider world — but that’s another blog post).

So will it be IAC or AOL? Probably not. But the NY Times has an incredibly impressive R&D team and I’m quite certain that if Conde-Nast and Hearst are smart and 1) keep giving these skunkworks teams as much leeway as they want; and 2) compensate the heck out of these entrepreneurs with serious equity in their own projects, then A big media company could emerge in the next 10 years as a big tech company.

Let’s just hope it’s not too late.

This entry was posted in New York City, NY Tech Meetup. Bookmark the permalink.
  • http://www.thegetdownguy.com willcole

    The best thing the government of NY can do to help the startups and businesses is to lower taxes. u00a0NY State and NYC have a large number of domestic people leaving to other states because their businesses and and personal lives are taxed more than any other city in the US. u00a0We still get a good number of immigrants from outside the US, but within the US we are not competitive with the Southwestern states in attracting US residents to come here. u00a0nnCompletely agree with you on the impact of having a solid stream of engineering students locally filling up the workforce and the impact HackNY is having. u00a0It’s a phenomenal program and I hope it sticks around for a while.

    • http://innonate.com/ Nate Westheimer

      Interesting point because I don’t know anyone who’s left because of taxes or has lamented to me that the difference maker of whether or not the company made it/was able to recruit/etc was because of tax rates. Instead, people are saying that the benefits of being in NYC and everything our tax rates support is what is helping them recruit.

      • http://dynamoplayer.com Rob Millis

        Unfortunately our taxes are far less efficient than many smaller cities, so I’d argue it’s the community and the environment here that make it worthwhile, not because we get more for what we pay. I agreeu00a0that everyone likes to complain about taxes, and that other startup hubs are painful too. But taxes are still an issue, particularly when looking at the disincentive for startups to offer salaried positions.nnWith payroll taxes and withholding it costs us almost $1500 to put $1,000 into the pocket of an employee.u00a0The question then becomes how much can we get for that same $1500 from a temporary contractor or outsourced programmer? There are obvious advantages to retaining top talent and putting them on payroll, but for many lower and mid-tier jobs it can be a tough call.It’s worth noting that 1.6 million people left NYC over the last decade and only 900,000 arrived. We may not be losing the rocket scientists because of taxes, but we’re clearly not giving anyone a big incentive to stay either.u00a0Meanwhile, I know founders whose margins would be devoured here, but they thrive in Salt Lake and Austin because top tech talent is easier and cheaper to hire, rent is cheap, taxes are better…u00a0Like many New Yorkers, my startup is here because I love the city too much to live anywhere else, not because it makes sense for the bottom line.

    • http://wearenytech.com/64-mark-birch-investor-entrepreneur-trader Mark Birch

      Taxes have about zero impact on the tech startup ecosystem.u00a0 I understand what you are saying, but the fact is that the three major tech hubs in the US (Bay Area, NYC and Boston) are also three of the highest tax states.u00a0 The fact is that people WANT to be in these areas rather than, say South Dakota or Nevada or Wyoming, all states that have no personal or corporate income tax.u00a0 Only Texas has a noteworthy tech scene, but I am not seeing NYC companies moving out there any time soon because the taxes or the rent is too damn high.

      • http://www.thegetdownguy.com willcole

        They have an impact on lifestyle and who is willing to live there. u00a0I don’t think it effects founders decisions, just their pool to hire from.

  • http://twitter.com/jimhirshfield JimHirshfield

    I’m kinda torn on the $100M for a new engineering school issue. What could $100M do if it was used to advance computer science programs at NYU, Columbia, Stevens, etc?u00a0nnAnother point that I haven’t seen addressed much: Will another engineering school just feed more engineering grads to Wall St? I think so. Sure there will be more engineers for start-ups, but the flow to Wall Street won’t let up.

    • http://innonate.com/ Nate Westheimer

      Thanks for the comment Jim.nnOne the $100M front, I think people are also forgetting that it’s not $100M of liquid assets or cash. Really it’s “Hey, no one really wants to do anything with this land so let’s value it at $100M and give it to a school.” That’s part of the brillance — those islands are a pain to get to, unless you’re a college campus where you have everything you need right around you. nAs for the Wall St issue… perhaps you’re right. I don’t think so. Certainly we can’t stop growing our talent base here because we’re worried about where they’ll end up working. Our job to bring them here and to inspire them to work for us or build startups.

      • http://twitter.com/jimhirshfield JimHirshfield

        Land….hmm…good point.n

      • http://twitter.com/coalition4qns Coalition for Queens

        Great response to Chris Dixon’s piece. However, you say that “those islands are a pain to get to” – do you think the Mayor and the NYCEDC should be more strategic about the location of this new university? It’s true that the site will be used primarily for a new campus for students and faculty members, but isn’t also true that innovative projects ultimately need space/real estate in order to grow?u00a0

        • http://innonate.com/ Nate Westheimer

          I think the locations are great. Again, universities are uniquely self-contained. Islands are good for universities and prisons, I guess :)

  • http://yallaguy.com aarondelcohen

    Nate:nn100mm dollar is a meaningful, but achievable gift for:nnBarry DillernMichael BloombergnTim Armstrong perhapsnA dozen hedge fund execs (no ties to Tech, but big ties to NYC)nMaybe Fred Wilson and Brad Burnham are getting therenMaybe u00a0Jim RobinsonnAnd I’m sure we could add to this list.nnOne of the real challenges in NY is that the philanthropists need to invest more heavily in our universities. u00a0I think bring Stanford (as is the rumore) Engineering is a positive, but what’s really needed are platforms for tech and financial services wealth to support institutes at all of our major universities to make them better.nnn

  • fiona

    -Tissot T Wave watches uk salennShe had gone back to Tara once in fearnanddefeat and she had emerged from its sheltering wallsstrong and armed fornvictory. What she had done once,somehowu2014u2014please God, she could do againuff01 How, shedidnnot know. She did not want to think of that now.All she wanted was a breathingnspace in which to hurt,a quiet place to lick her wounds, a haven in whichntoplan her campaign. nnn